Photo by: Alex Bemis
This piece was originally featured in AM02 — Issue Two of Ascribe. Click here to read it alongside the rest of the issue.
So to start off, I just wanna ask how you’re doing, because 2022 was huge for you guys. Have you had any chance to relax since then?
Um, it was like, the holidays were a month straight of just pure chaos. And then I have been, relaxing since in the new year for like two and a half weeks straight. And then, school kind of picked back up cause I’m in my last semester of college, so, um, I did have some downtime, but yeah, it’s been quite chill, I must say.
There’s been some really cool announcements coming out for you guys, like different festivals and you have a run coming up with Nothing More and Crown the Empire. Is there a certain festival or city you’re excited to hit?
We’re playing Vancouver and I’ve never been there before and I heard it’s so sick. So I’m very, very excited about that, honestly.
So I wanna jump in and talk about Hell Finds You Everywhere. It’s been out for a couple months now, was personally one of my albums of the year. What’s it feel like to have those songs out?
It’s good. There was a lot of weight off our back when it finally came out. It was just a long time coming, you know, that was our pandemic record that we were working on in the midst of all the chaos. It was one of those things that we had been sitting on the music for so long, you started to overthink it. You’re like, “is this even good?” It loses its magic after you’ve been listening to it for like a year straight. So yeah, getting it out felt very, very nice.
Well, it’s very good in my opinion.
Once it came out, it kind of reaffirmed like, “oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. We do know how to write music. That’s good.”
So you got to play some of the new singles live on the tour you just finished up before the year ended with Bad Omens. I’m assuming you’re gonna be playing some new ones from the record on this next run that you’ve got going on. What are your top songs you’re excited to play?
I think we’re just for the next tour, we’re only adding one more in, cause it’s more of like a rock tour and we didn’t wanna add too much of the heavy stuff in. So I think “Silent Season” is the only one that we are playing. I think it’s just like “Sabotage” — Oh, no, no, that’s not true! Sorry. The title track, the one with Noah [Sebastian], that’s gonna be our intro. So, we added two more of the new songs, which I’m very excited to play. I just think that’s a really good intro song. I think it’s powerful, it’s like attention grabbing right at the gate. I’m very, very excited to play that. Honestly, I feel like it’s just gonna be one of those things where it’s got a good breakdown. It’s a great intro. I think it’s like what our set needed.
When you’re writing, do you ever take that live performance into consideration, or is that something that comes after the fact?
I know a lot of bands write songs that they know like, “oh, this is gonna go off live.” I think that’s one of the things that’s probably our main weakness in terms of songwriting is that it is not a thought in our head, for the most part. And sometimes, we’ll end up with a handful of like slow ballad, emotional bangers and we’re like, “oh, this is great.” But then you realize like, you know, a whole live set of those, it doesn’t go off as well. So you do have to play the
energetic stuff.
It’s cool sometimes though, you can kind of rework songs for live performances.
There’s little things you can do to spice ‘em up. And as long the set’s in the right order, there’s ways to like make the set less down tempo or less slow, less sad. You can make it exciting in the right ways.
So, you guys have never shied away from experimenting, but this record really feels like we’re seeing you guys come into your own. It’s best work yet. Everything’s like, next level, from the lyrics, production, instrumentation, all of it. What was it like to put this together compared to your prior albums?
The main difference between this record and the others is that we produced most of it. About two thirds of the record, we produced ourselves, like in our rooms. We’re all like self sufficient producers at home. We were able to just like, spend a lot of time just trying new things and you know, just like getting weird in the studio. When you’re not on someone else’s time, not paying a producer hourly or daily, when you’re not in that mode, you have a lot of time to just try weird things in your room and just be like, “oh, what if I did this? What if I did that?” You know, text the guys and be like, “how crazy would this be?” You’re not wasting anyone’s time, so it’s really nice. That was the big difference between the last record and this one.
On the note of some of it being self-produced and some of it not, I saw there’s a bunch of different features like from people songwriting or producing or being on actual tracks. I also saw in another interview you did recently with Crucial Rhythm, you discussed how a lot of these people were people that you were either friends of or fans of. What’s it like to collaborate with people that you kind of have that preexisting relationship with?
I think that’s honestly the only way to collaborate properly. You know, the people don’t know you — if you don’t know them super well, you’re not gonna understand the ethos of each other’s projects and how you approach music and whatnot. You know, Noah, he’s our friend. Matt from Caskets, we had done a tour with them, so that felt very natural. They were pretty excited about the band. And then with CVLTE, I actually didn’t hear about them for a long time. I was Twitch streaming one day and I had a fan in my chat be like “hey!” I was talking about music that I liked but how I didn’t have enough new music of stuff that I actually wanted to listen to like in that genre. Someone was like, “you should check out this. This is like right up your alley.” And I was like, “oh, this is amazing. I really, really like this.” And then the person was like, “Hey, I know this guy is like a fan of your band. I’ve seen like, posts about your stuff on the internet.” I was like, “cool. I’m a fan of this guy. He’s a fan of my stuff. We get each other’s projects.” I just randomly hit him up and it was like the weirdest song on the record — “Blue Roses Don’t Fade.” It’s just kind of the weirder song on the record, which I like having a one or two of those of like, “Whoa, what the hell? This band doesn’t do that” type of thing. All those felt really natural and it wasn’t really like a forced thing. I’d rather have people that really wanna do stuff than like, a super crazy big artist you have to pay money to that doesn’t know anything about you.
Circling back to the idea of creating the record as a whole, were there any particular challenges aside from the pandemic that you guys ran into with this one?
I think this is something that was kind of evident in the beginning, but it’s been a lot more of a thing. This chasm has grown in the past few years, even more so in the songwriting process. We all just like really different music. There’s not a lot of like, “oh, hey bro, check this out. I know you’re gonna like this cause I like this.” We all just listen to super different stuff. The stuff I listen to, I know, like no one else in my band would spend a lot of time listening to it and vice versa to them. We’re all inspired by very different things, which can be a big tool. It can be awesome, it can really help us, but sometimes it’s also like when you’re trying to convince someone else of, “Hey, this is why I’m doing this, this is why I’m doing that.” and they’re like “what?” You’re like, “oh, well this guy did this and I’m trying to emulate this type of sound or whatever.” And people are like, “I don’t like that.” That’s sort of like the one disadvantage that we have. It becomes an advantage sometimes when everyone’s ideas coincide together and it comes out in a unique way.
So on the idea of “Hell Finds You Everywhere” as the intro to the album, it’s a killer intro. It’s very cinematic and just throws you right in there. What was the particular reason you placed it at the beginning? Do you think of the placement of songs as you work on them?
I treat a record like writing an essay. Sometimes I’ll be like, okay, these are the types of tracks that I wanna have. A lot of times I’ll have song names before the song is even made. I’ll just have an album title with a bunch of song name ideas and themes, and they’ll send me instrumentals and I’m like, “okay, I like this instrumental.” It’s just way better across the board. But on our last two records, I felt like we didn’t really have an introduction. Didn’t have something that was cinematic at the gate. Didn’t feel like it was the beginning of a record. We just had like a banger single out at the gate type of thing. So this time around I was like, “hey guys, I really want to have something that’s …” it’s funny that you said that word, like theatrical. That’s a word that I used in terms of that.
On the note of openers and closers as well, I feel like “All I Have Left To Give” does feel like a conclusion to like what I was listening to. I was like, this feels like a protagonist in a movie. Just accepting that what has happened has happened and that’s the end.
Yep. That’s, that’s literally like the whole point of the song. It was, uh, when, when I finished it, I sent it to our guitar player, Josh [Thomas], and I was like, “yo, this is ending the record.” And he was like, “yeah, a hundred percent.” And that was never a contested thing.
“Silent Season” is one of my favorites on the record. Super underrated. Can you speak on the meaning of that song and how that came to be?
So, I moved out of town. My ex-girlfriend moved out of town a long time ago too, but then moved back and then like, you know, in and out of town. It’s about coming back into your hometown and just reconnecting with an old romantic flame, that being complicated, and it’s just getting weird — which always ends up being in the holidays, ‘cause that’s the time where people like to come back into town. You know, like December and November, that type of stuff. I started just noticing this kind of funny, vicious cycle in those actions happening in the same months of every year.
A lot of the lyrics feel very vulnerable on this record. I mean, the stories obviously behind them are vulnerable too, when you just look at [“Silent Season”], for example.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
“Sabotage” and “Next Time Around” come to mind in particular, like having these dark themes that are being discussed. Did you do this album anticipating being that open or was that just a consequence of the songwriting?
No, I think that’s just the theme of our band. I feel like our song matter has always been really serious. I’ve always tried to make the lyrical content as deep as possible. Also, the guys will set me up with instrumentals that they know are like, “hey, this is a soul crushing instrumental,” you know? But one thing we did on this record was trying to have a couple songs that maybe weren’t like the craziest, deepest, heartbreaking thing ever. Like “Venenosa,” that song’s subject matter is not that deep. That’s me trying to make just a high energy, surface level song. “Silent Season…” not really the most soul-crushing thing, either. It’s the more upbeat, faster track on the record. Like a pop-punk type? Yeah, that’s just been how the band has been going. Where we’ve succeeded is in tracks like “No Place Like You,” and stuff like that. We’ve had people really be like, “oh, this is the song that got me into you guys,” and we’re like, “cool.” It’s a conscious effort, and we do know that’s a theme of the band and we’d like to do that ‘cause it’s also the type of music we like to listen to, you know? Like the emotional ballads on records, like track seven, track eight type of thing.
In my opinion, you guys are kind of leading the new genre of metalcore, post-hardcore.
There’s like, this handful of bands are kind of responsible for the new wave of the sound, the New Guard; that’s what everyone calls it. It’s like Holding Absence, Caskets, Thousand Below. There’s some bands that wore that, and have kind of blown up — like, I don’t even consider Bad Omens in the New Guard anymore, just ‘cause they’re like so past everything else. They’re so freaking big. But yeah, there’s that New Guard of post-hardcore bands. I’m trying to think. Even metalcore bands too. Ones like Dying Wish and Dead Lakes, like that. They’re more of … I don’t know how to describe their band. Let’s say alternative rock. But yeah, that’s the phrase that me and my friends use — the Old Guard and the New Guard, you know?
Yeah! How does it feel to be, like, on the frontlines of like that new wave of the sound that’s coming from the scene?
It’s exciting for us. This is the first time we feel like our band has a seat at the table in terms of relevant bands. And when people are like, “oh, I’m gonna go to a show that’s like this,” our band is a thought in their head. The fact of us being a conscious presence in the scene like that is … it’s big for us. It’s validating, when the imposter syndrome you’ve had for years starts to fade away. It feels good. Just makes you feel like a professional. Yeah, I don’t know. But I like it.
I have a handful of kinda rapid fire, lighter questions for us to get to know you individually. First being, what’s one song on the album that you think deserves more hype than it’s gotten?
Man. In terms of my own opinions?
Yeah.
I feel like I’m always wrong with these. Like, all the tracks that I think are the coolest, at least on our older stuff, never really got what they deserved. “Next Time Around” was the first song I’d made for the record, I’m pretty sure … or maybe not. No, I think it was — it was the first song that I finished at home, anyway. I remember when I first wrote that, I was like, “oh my God, like this is crazy.” I thought [that song] was gonna be a little bigger, especially with Caskets right now. But, it doesn’t have a video, you know? It wasn’t a single. It didn’t get the Spotify Release Radar treatment, you know? There’s only so many songs that you can do for a record for that type of thing. All the songs are doing great, but you know, there is a number of disparities, no matter how small.
Circling back to like songs that you’ve written, is there one by another artist that you wish you could have written?
So, to me if you write a song, you can’t really enjoy it. So all my favorite songs, I’m happy I didn’t write them, ‘cause then I don’t get to really soak ‘em in. There are some songs I hear and I’m like, jealous. Like, god damn, that’s so good. I wanna make songs that feel that way, or whatever. There’s this song called “Basketball” by this artist Diveliner that I think is very good. He’s more like this alternative, hip hop, SoundCloud, R&B type guy, but it’s with a little bit more indie instrumentals. I don’t know how to describe it. Yeah, that’s like my favorite song in the whole world. I found that a couple years ago and I was like, “oh, this is so good.”
I’ll check it out, for sure.
It’s so good. I think that is my most played song of any song in the entire world on Spotify. It’s nice.
How do you like to stay connected to your local music scene? Do you find yourself going to shows a lot?
I used to. I grew up in San Diego, I live in LA now — as of like, six months ago. There’s not really a local music scene in LA. It’s more of a bunch of people that moved into the city to become an artist and stuff like that, which is great. It’s more of an industry grind than anything else. But the San Diego music scene used to be amazing. There was this venue called SOMA that was very tight knit — you could go to any local show. Most of the local shows would sell out 500 people and there’d be like 200, 300 people in the room that you knew them all by name and you were like, “okay, I know this, I know these people” and it was more of a social event. I’m older now. I’m 29. I’m not like, out showing my face and you know, meeting people at concerts and whatnot. I play enough concerts to the point where when I get home from tour, the last thing I wanna do is go hear live drums. I’m like, if I hear a guitar coming out of an amp for the next month, I’m gonna be like, fucking upset [laughs].
That’s a good point.
Yeah. Some people like the rock and roll life, the tour life, and all that type of stuff a little bit more than me. I feel like my identity isn’t set in that world. I also don’t even listen to any music that sounds like my band. Like genuinely, I listen to bad rap music and sad indie stuff. There’s no screamo bands that I listen to. There’s nothing with a breakdown short of like, Counterparts once in a while. And obviously Bring Me The Horizon, but I think that’s another band that’s like more of a mainstream rock band now. Yeah. I’m not the cool scene legend that I used to be. I do miss it. A lot of my friends aged out of that, and I’m still the old DJ guy in our group of friends that is in a rock band. So, my friends aren’t gonna go to a show with me. We’ll do festivals, like the generic stuff like Coachella and the really basic fucking things. But, you know, that’s what normal people like to go see. So I’m just like, as long as I get to see my friends, I don’t care what the hell we’re watching.
When you’re going through a creative block, either producing or writing, what do you like to do to kind of recenter yourself and stay motivated?
Sometimes when I’m working, if I’m not feeling super productive, I’ll do this thing where I make myself sit down on my music computer for 30 minutes to an hour each day, no matter what. Even if I’m not feeling it, I’m like, “just try,” you know? Make some things, even if it’s ass, who cares?
I call them like the low stakes days. I’m just like, alright, nothing’s gonna come out — but I’m just doing this to say I tried. And then some of those days, I’ll get like an hour or two’s worth of amazing ideas coming out. I’ll just like go on YouTube before, click through some stuff that I think is cool. Just ‘cause I don’t listen to a lot of bands that are in our realm. I think I forgot to mention The Plot In You; I definitely listened to that band. [I click through] bands like that, bands that I still think are pretty cool. I’ll just watch videos and things that inspire me. I’m like, “oh, like this set was really cool. That song’s awesome,” type of thing. Just get myself juiced up for a sec, and then I’ll quickly close YouTube and dive right back into working.
Are there any artists in the world that you would love to collaborate with?
Yeah, The Plot In You, for sure. We also almost went on tour with them like three times. We’ve had three separate tours with them canceled at the last second for one reason or the other. It’s just this weird curse where we just can’t end up out on the road with them. It just keeps falling apart.
I’m assuming that’s probably a dream tour, eventually?
Yeah. They were a big influence on us in the beginning. I wanna hang out with a guy who’s the same type of crazy as me, and I heard they’re fun. So, yeah.
Do you have any like one, one or two things that you can’t live without whenever you’re on the road?
Yeah, my inhaler. I have asthma. If I lose that, I freak out. I don’t even need it every day. Honestly, there will even be month stretches where I don’t have to use it. It just comes and goes. But just the thought of it not being there just freaks me out. If mine starts breaking or running out, I’m just like, “oh my God.” And then my laptop too, ‘cause I’ll be watching movies and TV in the hotel room and in the van as well. That’s how I fall asleep. If I didn’t have my laptop or my inhaler, I would definitely have a full scale meltdown, without a doubt.
Do you have any traditions whenever you guys are either on tour or in the studio?
Not really. The one thing our band connects pretty well on is ramen. We’re very different human beings in pretty much all facets of our life, but one thing we connect on is that we love ramen and we love going to ramen restaurants on tour. It’s one 35 of those things where if we’re fighting and we feel the vibe is off — you know, we’re, all being pissed at each other — we’re like, “arlight, let’s, let’s go get ramen, put it on the bank card.” We reconnect ourselves.
Whenever you’re working on a song, at what point do you personally know it’s complete?
That’s tough. I’m one of those weird people that’s like, “oh, a song is never actually done, you just get it as close as you can.” You can obsess — my friend’s band, they do this actually I think to a fault. They’ll work on one song for like, a month straight. And I’m just like, a song that is 90% done is gonna do more for your career than a song that is like a hundred percent done that never comes out, you know what I mean? I don’t know. I think it’s a double-edged sword. It’s one of those things where it’s like, you wanna work for quality, you wanna work for perfection. But I also think there’s never been a time that I put out a song and didn’t, you know, six months later listen to it and go, “oh, I should have added blah, blah.” Hindsight’s 20-20, I guess. I’m one of those cheesy you guys, a song’s never truly finished.
Lastly, if you could say anything about both Hell Finds You Everywhere and Thousand Below to the entire world, what would you wanna say?
Hmm … I guess, just thanks for listening. I never thought as many people would listen to the band, honestly. I remember when we first made the band and the scope of where we thought it was gonna go. We’re not a big band, we’re not massive or anything like that, but I even never thought we’d get to this point. I never saw us as a millions-on-Spotify band. That was never a thought in my head when we were making the band. It wasn’t even an intention, you know? We saw ourselves as a thousands, 20 thousands, a hundred thousands type of type of band. We were just like, “oh, this will be fun. We’ll go on some small tours, get that out of our system,” you know? Be like, “oh, I got to go on tour when I was young and tour with a couple of cool bands.” We never thought we’d be — like we were talking about earlier — part of the Guard, you know? Part of the New Guard. I never saw it that way. I never expected that. I never thought that was gonna happen. I knew the music was good, that was one thing I was pretty confident about. I was like, “hey, these are good songs. I’ve been in this scene for long enough to know when something’s cool and when it’s not,” you know? I just never really thought it’d get to this point. And still growing every day. I’m watching it slowly blow up, and we’re getting more and more cool opportunities. We’re playing like most of the American festival circuit this year. So just thanks, that’s all. I know it’s a cheesy answer, or whatever.
